I would agree if you could find any with real integrity. I don’t know cricket, but the first two and a couple downstream from here definitely leave quite a bit to be desired in that vein, especial AOC.
I shall after I recover from calling those traitors to democracy early this morning. Several had their Phones unavailable for messages and/or mailboxes full. SHAME ON THEM!
SHAME on Schumer, Gillebrand, Fetterman, Hirono, Durbin, and several others who sold the soul to the devil instead of standing for The Constitution and Democracy!
at this point in our history I liken us as lobsters in a pot of slowly heating water where we will not come to realize how cooked we are until it's far too late, a chip here, a shave there & the republic has been whittled away right from under us & all is now a fascist oligarchy that I've taken to terming a klepto-kakistocracy ( stolen government, ruled by our moral lessers).
I don’t like trump and do not like what’s going on in the country but wouldn’t a govt shutdown be worse? It would essentially be legitimately firing federal workers Elon wanted to fire and closing depts Elon wanted closed. Sure, the bill is not great but there are some good things in there like increased funding for WIC programs, veteran health services, wildland firefighters, air traffic control systems, food safety and inspection programs, etc. Are people now just mad at the democratic senators bc they would have preferred a shutdown? WHAT AM I MISSING? Was there a third choice? Please help me understand.
I was thinking the very same thing. I wish the Dems weren’t even in this predicament, but…it was either let more people to get legitimately let go or if trump let’s them go, it can be fought in court and hopefully he’s stopped or has to reverse his actions. I want to see them stand up more like everyone else, but I don’t think this was going to work out for them either way. It was a lose lose situation.
Exactly! And I think this was entirely planned by Republicans. They have a whole playbook ready and it’s time for Democratic leaders and supporters to start thinking and acting strategically.
This was literally the only leverage the Dems had. This was truly the only way to walk anything back. They caved and they are...and look...weak. When the Dems have fumbled every other move, this was their last shot. They gave the very last bit of power they had away. Weak, foolish and they know it. This party is over.
If they had let the shutdown go through, what would have been the Dem’s next play? I agree and would like to have seen a united front fighting back against the Republicans but by shutting down the govt, the Dems would be marked as uncooperative and republicans would have blamed the thousands of federal employees losing their jobs on the Dems.
Reject the premise of the question. They absolutely could have stood on the grounds that the right had all control so they owned it...but now, it is bipartisan. They needed us....but we gave it away. This party is eating checkers instead of playing chess. They have got to go.
I agree that they could and I agree we need a new crop of Dems, many are no longer in touch, but the optics aren’t there. The media spins this BS propaganda and are able to market the Reds like what they do is okay and the Dems don’t know how to market themselves well enough to better create a narrative that puts themselves as the party for the people. Also, I legitimately would like to know if they didn’t vote and the government shut down, how bad or not would this impact people’s lives? Would it be worse or actually not that bad? And I’m being serious, I’m not being a jerk, I really would like to get another person’s POV on this.
I agree with you. When I read the list, it doesn't sound as bad as I expected. There are some good programs that have increased funding. And Medicaid was not cut. (My opinion is based solely on one read of Aaron's newsletter, so maybe I'll feel differently with more info.)
So far the Dems only response to anything has been, "oh well" while they chip away at our rights, our freedom and our income. You know who isn't suffering any of those items? Old, white men in our party. If we don't stand up now, then when? I mean it. At what point do we start planning long term and stop this bs? At what point do we draw our line in the sand? Because they keep taking and my party's leaders keep saying "it would be worse if we didn't give up"? Because I want the line drawn, don't you??
It's not a complete list. As a cancer patient that has fought for research funding for the last 13 years, I'm aware of funding cuts to NIH & DoD that will drastically cut medical research funding. I know researchers that were preparing to close their labs last week. It's a really sad day.
That was a point being made in senate if they shut down Trump would go unchecked. However that part where congress looses its ability to overturn a presiding president is nuts! They said F this we yeild to the president
I agree with your thinking. I am a Democrat and I was truly afraid of what turmoil the shutdown would create. In any budget there is a give and take. Considering that a crisis needed to be averted we have to have some faith in our senators and congressmen and that they believe this is the best way to go. I'm actually proud of the dems that came forward for America.
We've had several government shutdowns that I can remember in the last 10 years. Essential federal workers are actually required to keep working even though they do not get paid. They are usually last a few weeks but would require them to rework the bill to come to an agreement. The last one was 35 days under Trump in 2018.
But non-essential workers will be furloughed. And from my understanding, an agreement between the two parties would have to be reached before the govt can reopen, correct? That means there’s a chance the Republicans can just keep rejecting anything Democrats propose and the govt will remain closed. How long can government workers continue to work without pay (or be furloughed) before they run out of money?
I think we all have to acknowledge that the current administration is unprecedented. Sure, Trump has been in office before but there were guardrails in place that no longer exist in the current term. He has (Republicans have) had 4 years to plan out their strategy and so far they have been winning by doing things no honorable American would think to do.
I think it's this bill was completely written by republican. If they had the time to negotiate like usual there are things they would have taken out? And possibly added in. Yes I agree a shut down would have been worse. Federal workers don't work or get paid. A resolution completely written by one side does not usually happen.
Here’s the thing: Elon said he wanted a shutdown. Trump already issued an EO stating that non-essential workers should be fired, so they will try to find a way, especially now that all the agencies turned in their RIF (reduction in force) plan, giving them an idea of what positions to cut. Also, Trump already has been issuing executive orders to freeze fundings, so a government shutdown gives them that. Then, the federal judges might not be working during a govt shutdown. Then also, because the Republicans control the House, only they can reintroduce a new budget and Mike Johnson has to be willing to reintroduce the new budget for a vote, so he can delay for however long he wants. So, the Democrats may be able to control a government shutdown, but Republicans will ultimately control how long it lasts. And we know Trump has already had the longest shutdown in history, and we also know that their point is to be cruel, they will use it to show that most of the workers aren’t needed, no one will be around to stop Elon from going into government bldgs while everyone is at home, so they will have free reign. So, it’s a catch 22. If this is chess, the Dems are certainly in a check and maybe even checkmate situation. Trump praising Schumer is just reverse psychology on the people. Schumer is a Jew. He called that man a Palestinian last week, as an insult. This is a dang if you do, dang if you don’t situation. I don’t know what’s the right decision at this point because both decisions are bad, but coming out of a govt shutdown would unfortunately be at the mercy of the Republicans, and they haven’t been showing any mercy.
I've definitely been trying to explain this very thing. A shutdown was almost scarier. Anything could have begun. Elon wanting it was the scariest reason.
Exactly. Both options are bad. But the dems wouldn’t have the power to end the shut which who knows what they’d do while the govt was shut down. Usually I’m all for shutting it down if you don’t agree, as a federal worker mind you, however, in this case I was paused to think…is that the best option?
Yes. I agree. I was thinking the same. But the problem is, because the Republicans control the House, they can decide not to bring the Dems plan up for a vote during the shutdown, and we can be back in this same situation a month from now with their same budget plan back up for a vote, and who knows what an unchecked Elon would’ve slashed in the interim, and there would’ve been no gains for the Dems who also would be blamed for the shutdown. They’d end up having to agree to this plan by then. Plus DOGE would’ve put all the non-essential federal workers on administrative leave with no pay during a shutdown, and no guarantee that they would give them back pay (even though they are currently required to), but we see how they are currently moving. At least this way, he doesn’t have free rein and the federal judges can continue to go after him. I hate saying all of this. I really do.
We all hate that our options were crap and crap. But like you said not having free rein to do what they want is probably key here. The courts are slow and I can’t imagine how much slower they’d be if they weren’t working and had to come back to a backlog of BS that happened with a shutdown. There just was no winning for dems. They are getting blasted for voting for it. They would’ve gotten blasted for shutting it down and having no way out. It’s a really tough position to be in.
I'm so annoyed (to put it lightly) that clarity like this so often seems to come only after the fact, and after I've wasted 3 days obsessing over it and calling my reps to tell them to do the thing that we now understand would've been the wrong thing. It makes me want to stop paying attention.
I agree with you, based on the orange menace’s response about the media. The more they can do to shut down the rest of the government and services. At least with gov open we have a chance to see what’s coming next vs surprises and chaos. Dems votes to look at the horror head on vs head in the sand.
This!! I’ve been so confused why there’s SO much anger when the alternative (shut down) is potentially worse. If anything, those 10 dem senators bit the bullet to make a strategic move. I have a suspicion that all these accounts yelling about being betrayed may be bots to incite fear and distrust within the left. And if not, people and Democratic leaders need to start thinking more strategically. Republicans have had 4 years to get all their ducks in a row and they’re not playing checkers anymore.
I understand both sides, just like you. Right now the Dems are at the mercy of the Repubs , either way. At this point, it's up to the people protesting, the federal judges and the Supreme Court following the law and not the cult of DJT. The main this is we do need a strong 3rd party so that we're never in this type of mess again. And some safeguards need to be in place to prevent Executive Branch overreach.
He's a disgrace. I got through on voicemail a few times but who knows if he even listened, was told, or cared. I am glad to see Slotkin got the message as she was planning to vote Yes as of yesterday. MI is super lucky to also has Republicans John James and Tom Barrett.... super!
I think it’s time for Bernie Sander, AOC, Crocket and the ones left with integrity to form a new governmental party 😭
That would work. Duckworth too. Warren.
Absolutely!
https://open.substack.com/pub/themarthavanw/p/the-death-of-the-democratic-party?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=4v33jm
I talk about this in my post!
I would agree if you could find any with real integrity. I don’t know cricket, but the first two and a couple downstream from here definitely leave quite a bit to be desired in that vein, especial AOC.
Absolutely NOT!!
Great way to split the vote and have even greater Republican/MAGA control.
Completely agree!!
Absolutely!!!
Cowards. Call your democratic senators that are voting no and tell them to vote for chuck schumer to resign as senate minority lead.
I shall after I recover from calling those traitors to democracy early this morning. Several had their Phones unavailable for messages and/or mailboxes full. SHAME ON THEM!
SHAME on Schumer, Gillebrand, Fetterman, Hirono, Durbin, and several others who sold the soul to the devil instead of standing for The Constitution and Democracy!
at this point in our history I liken us as lobsters in a pot of slowly heating water where we will not come to realize how cooked we are until it's far too late, a chip here, a shave there & the republic has been whittled away right from under us & all is now a fascist oligarchy that I've taken to terming a klepto-kakistocracy ( stolen government, ruled by our moral lessers).
I don’t like trump and do not like what’s going on in the country but wouldn’t a govt shutdown be worse? It would essentially be legitimately firing federal workers Elon wanted to fire and closing depts Elon wanted closed. Sure, the bill is not great but there are some good things in there like increased funding for WIC programs, veteran health services, wildland firefighters, air traffic control systems, food safety and inspection programs, etc. Are people now just mad at the democratic senators bc they would have preferred a shutdown? WHAT AM I MISSING? Was there a third choice? Please help me understand.
I was thinking the very same thing. I wish the Dems weren’t even in this predicament, but…it was either let more people to get legitimately let go or if trump let’s them go, it can be fought in court and hopefully he’s stopped or has to reverse his actions. I want to see them stand up more like everyone else, but I don’t think this was going to work out for them either way. It was a lose lose situation.
Exactly! And I think this was entirely planned by Republicans. They have a whole playbook ready and it’s time for Democratic leaders and supporters to start thinking and acting strategically.
This was literally the only leverage the Dems had. This was truly the only way to walk anything back. They caved and they are...and look...weak. When the Dems have fumbled every other move, this was their last shot. They gave the very last bit of power they had away. Weak, foolish and they know it. This party is over.
If they had let the shutdown go through, what would have been the Dem’s next play? I agree and would like to have seen a united front fighting back against the Republicans but by shutting down the govt, the Dems would be marked as uncooperative and republicans would have blamed the thousands of federal employees losing their jobs on the Dems.
Reject the premise of the question. They absolutely could have stood on the grounds that the right had all control so they owned it...but now, it is bipartisan. They needed us....but we gave it away. This party is eating checkers instead of playing chess. They have got to go.
I agree that they could and I agree we need a new crop of Dems, many are no longer in touch, but the optics aren’t there. The media spins this BS propaganda and are able to market the Reds like what they do is okay and the Dems don’t know how to market themselves well enough to better create a narrative that puts themselves as the party for the people. Also, I legitimately would like to know if they didn’t vote and the government shut down, how bad or not would this impact people’s lives? Would it be worse or actually not that bad? And I’m being serious, I’m not being a jerk, I really would like to get another person’s POV on this.
I agree with you. When I read the list, it doesn't sound as bad as I expected. There are some good programs that have increased funding. And Medicaid was not cut. (My opinion is based solely on one read of Aaron's newsletter, so maybe I'll feel differently with more info.)
So far the Dems only response to anything has been, "oh well" while they chip away at our rights, our freedom and our income. You know who isn't suffering any of those items? Old, white men in our party. If we don't stand up now, then when? I mean it. At what point do we start planning long term and stop this bs? At what point do we draw our line in the sand? Because they keep taking and my party's leaders keep saying "it would be worse if we didn't give up"? Because I want the line drawn, don't you??
It's not a complete list. As a cancer patient that has fought for research funding for the last 13 years, I'm aware of funding cuts to NIH & DoD that will drastically cut medical research funding. I know researchers that were preparing to close their labs last week. It's a really sad day.
That was a point being made in senate if they shut down Trump would go unchecked. However that part where congress looses its ability to overturn a presiding president is nuts! They said F this we yeild to the president
I agree with your thinking. I am a Democrat and I was truly afraid of what turmoil the shutdown would create. In any budget there is a give and take. Considering that a crisis needed to be averted we have to have some faith in our senators and congressmen and that they believe this is the best way to go. I'm actually proud of the dems that came forward for America.
We've had several government shutdowns that I can remember in the last 10 years. Essential federal workers are actually required to keep working even though they do not get paid. They are usually last a few weeks but would require them to rework the bill to come to an agreement. The last one was 35 days under Trump in 2018.
But non-essential workers will be furloughed. And from my understanding, an agreement between the two parties would have to be reached before the govt can reopen, correct? That means there’s a chance the Republicans can just keep rejecting anything Democrats propose and the govt will remain closed. How long can government workers continue to work without pay (or be furloughed) before they run out of money?
I think we all have to acknowledge that the current administration is unprecedented. Sure, Trump has been in office before but there were guardrails in place that no longer exist in the current term. He has (Republicans have) had 4 years to plan out their strategy and so far they have been winning by doing things no honorable American would think to do.
I think it's this bill was completely written by republican. If they had the time to negotiate like usual there are things they would have taken out? And possibly added in. Yes I agree a shut down would have been worse. Federal workers don't work or get paid. A resolution completely written by one side does not usually happen.
So you want to see Americans hurt by a shutdown. I understand now. Liberal hypocrisy.
So, then, give me your specific beef with this, other than any generalized Trump hatred that clouds your faculties from being objective?
We’re really just letting our government be destroyed. This is insane.
Here’s the thing: Elon said he wanted a shutdown. Trump already issued an EO stating that non-essential workers should be fired, so they will try to find a way, especially now that all the agencies turned in their RIF (reduction in force) plan, giving them an idea of what positions to cut. Also, Trump already has been issuing executive orders to freeze fundings, so a government shutdown gives them that. Then, the federal judges might not be working during a govt shutdown. Then also, because the Republicans control the House, only they can reintroduce a new budget and Mike Johnson has to be willing to reintroduce the new budget for a vote, so he can delay for however long he wants. So, the Democrats may be able to control a government shutdown, but Republicans will ultimately control how long it lasts. And we know Trump has already had the longest shutdown in history, and we also know that their point is to be cruel, they will use it to show that most of the workers aren’t needed, no one will be around to stop Elon from going into government bldgs while everyone is at home, so they will have free reign. So, it’s a catch 22. If this is chess, the Dems are certainly in a check and maybe even checkmate situation. Trump praising Schumer is just reverse psychology on the people. Schumer is a Jew. He called that man a Palestinian last week, as an insult. This is a dang if you do, dang if you don’t situation. I don’t know what’s the right decision at this point because both decisions are bad, but coming out of a govt shutdown would unfortunately be at the mercy of the Republicans, and they haven’t been showing any mercy.
I've definitely been trying to explain this very thing. A shutdown was almost scarier. Anything could have begun. Elon wanting it was the scariest reason.
Exactly. Both options are bad. But the dems wouldn’t have the power to end the shut which who knows what they’d do while the govt was shut down. Usually I’m all for shutting it down if you don’t agree, as a federal worker mind you, however, in this case I was paused to think…is that the best option?
Yes. I agree. I was thinking the same. But the problem is, because the Republicans control the House, they can decide not to bring the Dems plan up for a vote during the shutdown, and we can be back in this same situation a month from now with their same budget plan back up for a vote, and who knows what an unchecked Elon would’ve slashed in the interim, and there would’ve been no gains for the Dems who also would be blamed for the shutdown. They’d end up having to agree to this plan by then. Plus DOGE would’ve put all the non-essential federal workers on administrative leave with no pay during a shutdown, and no guarantee that they would give them back pay (even though they are currently required to), but we see how they are currently moving. At least this way, he doesn’t have free rein and the federal judges can continue to go after him. I hate saying all of this. I really do.
We all hate that our options were crap and crap. But like you said not having free rein to do what they want is probably key here. The courts are slow and I can’t imagine how much slower they’d be if they weren’t working and had to come back to a backlog of BS that happened with a shutdown. There just was no winning for dems. They are getting blasted for voting for it. They would’ve gotten blasted for shutting it down and having no way out. It’s a really tough position to be in.
I'm so annoyed (to put it lightly) that clarity like this so often seems to come only after the fact, and after I've wasted 3 days obsessing over it and calling my reps to tell them to do the thing that we now understand would've been the wrong thing. It makes me want to stop paying attention.
I agree with you, based on the orange menace’s response about the media. The more they can do to shut down the rest of the government and services. At least with gov open we have a chance to see what’s coming next vs surprises and chaos. Dems votes to look at the horror head on vs head in the sand.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for this
This!! I’ve been so confused why there’s SO much anger when the alternative (shut down) is potentially worse. If anything, those 10 dem senators bit the bullet to make a strategic move. I have a suspicion that all these accounts yelling about being betrayed may be bots to incite fear and distrust within the left. And if not, people and Democratic leaders need to start thinking more strategically. Republicans have had 4 years to get all their ducks in a row and they’re not playing checkers anymore.
Thank you for this explanation .. I guess either way, we lose.
I understand both sides, just like you. Right now the Dems are at the mercy of the Repubs , either way. At this point, it's up to the people protesting, the federal judges and the Supreme Court following the law and not the cult of DJT. The main this is we do need a strong 3rd party so that we're never in this type of mess again. And some safeguards need to be in place to prevent Executive Branch overreach.
This! Thank you
Thank you for that perspective, you make a very good point to consider.
Absolutely ashamed of the NY senators.
I am fucking disgusted with my senators. Gilibrand and Schumer are shameful.
Fucking POSs will be removed! How the hell can they do this to us???
Vote them out!
FUCK, and I don’t normally cuss.
Go for it. Join the choir. It's either that or all of our heads explode.
If ever there was time, Dorothy, it is now. Swear away.
I love your name!
Thank you Pebbles :o) You worked it out then? LOL
Yes, I did!😆
Peters (Mi) office stopped taking calls and responding to his constituents before this. What a traitor who needs to be recalled
Further context is he’s already announced he’s not running for reelection. Guess he’s decided he doesn’t need to do his job of representing us.
He's a disgrace. I got through on voicemail a few times but who knows if he even listened, was told, or cared. I am glad to see Slotkin got the message as she was planning to vote Yes as of yesterday. MI is super lucky to also has Republicans John James and Tom Barrett.... super!
Peters is retiring after this term. So he doesn’t care.
Hound him everyday until the. On what a disgrace he is
As a Michigander a democratic michigander I am pissed Gary Peters flipped.
See it doesn't matter what the people are asking for, it's what these elected officials want. The whole system has become a sham
Its time to start primarying the Vichy Democrats. They surrendered America to Putin without firing a shot.
well said!
Democrats are USELESS
https://open.substack.com/pub/themarthavanw/p/the-death-of-the-democratic-party?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=4v33jm
Read my post about how the Dems aren't showing up for the people and the rapid formation of leftists/socialist.
That pic of Schumer with trump said it all. We’re fucked.
Bye Chuck
AND Gillibrand
UP Chuck
Sell outs
I am livid!
Rightfully so
This is inconceivable
We the people let's get fighting